As weeks go I’ve had better
Many things have contributed to the lack of a new comic for today but suffice it to say that you are witnessing the beginning of the end for Turn Signals. Since I am losing my job and health benefits, with no immediate prospects, I finally got off my duff last week and inquired about what I would have to do to get Turn Signals into a book for you all to purchase to possible alleviate some of my family’s financial stress. This is what I received back:
“So, in the case of TSOALR we’ve been very happy to let you put your web
comics up as a bit of fun. However, we can’t let you make money off of
what you’re doing because of the legal precedent it could set.
So, I’m afraid there’s just no way for us to allow you to sell TSOALR
prints. I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news. It’s not that we don’t
like what you do, it’s just that for various commercial reasons we’re
unable to grant you permission to make commercial gain from what is,
ultimately, selling GW-owned imagery.”
I had hoped for better, but had no evidence to believe that it would be. I have reached a point in this endeavour where the effort to put up the comic is far outpacing the return, at least monitarily. Losing one’s job can tend to put things in a different perspective and I realize that my efforts must now be directed more toward supporting my family than supporting my ‘bit of fun.’ As Webmaster Larry said the other day “that shadow was always there” and i knew it too. So for now the comic wll continue, I owe my advertisers that much at least, but it will be ending and some time soon. I’m hoping to continue with web comics, with a fully marketable property, and I’m hoping that when I find it some of you will come read it. Anyway, TSOALR will be back on Friday. See you then.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
This is indeed bad news.
Are there any other options? For example outsourcing the work to a group of artists?
Jez
February 25th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
It will be sad to see them go. Good luck with the new comics.
February 25th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
I’m really sorry to hear about you losing your job, I know that hurts and really makes you rethink just about everything. I will definitely miss the comics when they go, but will look into your new stuff, and remain hopeful you might find your way to doing the odd TSOALR comic from time to time.
February 25th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
but, but your TSOALR, you cant go forever…
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :’(
February 25th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Good luck! I will also be possibly be loosing my job soon so I know your pain. Really sorry to hear TSOALR will be closing shop. Honestly its the only thing 40K I like out there. But in these times you do what you have to.
Hang in there, we are all in this together.
February 25th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
That’s really a shame… I completely understand GW’s need to enforce their Intellectual Property, but there must be SOME way they can offer TSOALR “Official” status – even if it means publishing the books through Black Library, and giving you some kind of publishing deal!
What’s unfortunate is that GW seems unwilling or unable to support their community in creative endeavors like this… not something I’m happy to hear, considering I’m about to embark on a similar venture.
Maybe it IS time to start working on your own IP? Well, whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck!
February 25th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Sorry to hear about your job. The way the economy is right now a lot of people have been left jobless incuding myself.
I’ve been reading tsoalr for a long time now and I’ll miss it when it ends. Best of luck with starting a new comic. I’m sure many of the readers here will come read it if you drop a link here.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
f***ing f*** goddamned s***.
I blame the current crisis on the Greed of select Few, while the helpless suffer the Consequence.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
If you decided to publish them anyway you would definitely get sued by Games Workshop. However, depending on where the case went to court you stand a fair chance of winning. If published as a work of parody and presented in a United States court you would most likely win based on the fair use act. However, as Games Workshop is a British company they would most likely try to have it tried in a British court and the United Kingdom’s fair dealing act isn’t applied in anything near as consistent a basis as the fair use act. In that court it would be a tossup.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Damm shame, your comic made my day. Have you thought of appraching GW directly, you could get a monthly strip in the White Dwarf might improve it somewhat. Or even discuss with them you both making some money ie pay them commision to publish book. Anyay hope things pick up for you all the best from the UK
February 25th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Steve, I feel with you.
I do believe though that you have the germ of your own future though in Monday’s comic. Cavendish!!!! He’s not a GW model so they cannot object if you spin off a comic based on him and his squaddies. The possibilities are endless – he can pop up in any game in any period! A lot of them won’t mind as you’ll be giving some of them much-needed publicity. In fact if GW werent such $^%$%ing scared of their precious content being messed with, they would realise its comics like these that help them albeit indirectly
My point is produce a book, use Cavendish as the vehicle, advertise for pre-orders to cover initial production costs and you’re away. I would wager that you could even gather some ‘donations’ via paypal etc from some of us avid readers to get you started – you never know and nobody can stop us. Not even GW can do so as its a free market, the very free market that GW uses to make its own money I might add!
In the meantime we’ll enjoy the comics, do them as long as you can as if you’ve got nothing to lose – which you havent. In the meantime good luck with the job search dude, we’re all rooting for ya!
February 25th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
i am sorry to hear about this. ending something is always a sad time, but i would like to thank you for the 600+ strips of TSOALR that you made available to us to brighten our days. i wish you the best of luck on the job market.
February 25th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
This breaks my heart. Good luck to you, and LONG LIVE THE POINTY STICKS!!!
February 25th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Dude, this is like the end of the world. I’m a huge fan.
February 25th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Hi, Just out of interest when you asked about getting the comics made into a book did you ask if they would like to publish them themselves (by Black Library). While its understandable that they wouldn’t want to just let you publish them with another company they may be interest in publishing them?
Andrew
February 25th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Damn that’s a shame Steve!
I’m sorry to hear about your job situation. Good luck getting something soon. Unemployment plus dependants = sucks the big one (been there, done that!)
I’m also not surprised at GW’s legal attitude, very consistent with their constipated approach to “having fun”! If it’s not making 100% profit for them they aren;t interested! Very poor show in my view.
It will be the end of an era for all us dedicated TSOALR fans, and all I can offer is my thanks for such a really good run! My hat goes off to you and your undying imagination to have put up so many very amusing and downright funny comics over the years. From the early tentative beginnings on the old Spacewolves Community site (now also gone thanks to MSN closing Communities sites!) to the current day. I still re-read all these comics at least twice a year and would have loved to have them in a book of some sort. GW you are missing an opportunity here!!
Will the site be maintained, if enough donations can be raised to pay for it? Or will it disappear for ever and be lost to history?
Harkon, crying sadly into his beer, and pies, and chips, and puddings, and pastries and….
February 25th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
I’ll miss TSOAR greatly when it’s gone. We all know who are really to blame- let’s all make sure they don’t get away with it.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
Steve, I’m really sorry to hear about you losing your job.
Although I’m only 16 and don’t really know what it feels like, i still feel for you.
I agree with Baldiman about making some kind of Comic Strip based off of Cavendish.
I’ll miss clicking my main link in my web browser to get my bi-daily laughs.
Great job on all these years, and best of luck with whatever you start on now.
Regards and Best Wishes
February 25th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
I’m really sorry to hear that, Steve. This is a great comic, it’ll be a shame to see it go.
Will you still be doing the Bell of Lost Souls comics?
February 26th, 2009 at 1:23 am
Well… That just…
Crap.
Words fail me. Another internet favorite scheduled for deadedness… Crud.
Does this mean you’ll be picking up Boids again?
February 26th, 2009 at 1:42 am
Thank you all for the kind thoughts and words. I’ve got some ideas in my pocket and you’ve given me some really good ones (baldiman) so I’m not planning to disappear. I’m just ending the free advertising i’ve given GW for five years. I’ve still got a guest week to fill up with my new experimental project, so look for that soon. Hint-it’s still game related.
February 26th, 2009 at 5:52 am
I’m so sorry to hear that. I’ve been a long time fan and love TSOALR. GW is really getting on my nerves all these years with their attitude towards everything tbh.
February 26th, 2009 at 6:08 am
Sad to hear that the end is near. I found TSOALR last spring when 40kRadio mentioned you and have been enjoying it since then. Thanks for all the fun and your hard work.
GW should pay you for a white dwarf strip. The mag really need it and youve already given them som much marketing already.
Good luck in the future. I’ll be returing here to se what happens. I hope you find a way to let the TSOALR archive will live on.
February 26th, 2009 at 6:11 am
Bad news for all, but I look forward to whatever else you come up with.
Thanks for all the fun at TSOALR.
FREEEM!
February 26th, 2009 at 7:11 am
What about a Cavendish character based comic? And just find a new meaning for tsolr and keep the website, obviously!
February 26th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Steve:
Why not make a strip with Kren and Frep as ex-GW models used in other gameS? You dont even have to call them ex-GW, just generic armored scifi marines
February 26th, 2009 at 10:34 am
if GW wherent the greedy little bastards they are they could give you a monitored license or something, whereas their pr is prerading it.
then again… better not.
February 26th, 2009 at 11:10 am
i’ll miss the EPS, they have charm that the Ultrasmurfs and all the others lack.
Not forgetting the memorable cast of TSOALR characters
February 26th, 2009 at 11:28 am
I sincerely hope you find work and are able to support your family as soon as possible, it’s good people like yourself that suffer in these times. I wish you luck not only for the present but also in any future endeavor. I have enjoyed your satire immensely and feel that the loss of this strip will leave an empty spot for many faithful readers.
February 26th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Hey Steve. I have just personally discovered the Emperor’s Pointy Sticks fairly recently and am very sad to see them possibly coming to an end.
I completely understand the job situation – I’m going through that myself over here in Canada. Times are rough. Shame GW is so protective of their IP in this matter. Didn’t White Dwarf have a monthly comic page ages and ages ago. I seem to recall a great outcry when they were discontinued. Maybe featuring the Pointy Sticks in White Dwarf would be another possible route for you to examine – the Pointy Stick seems to slowly be easing out of GWs butt in certain matters relating to fun, so maybe the time for comics in WD is right. Maybe even a weekly strip on the GW website and a full page comic every WD. That would keep my interest in both the website and WD high!
Best of luck in all your endeavors! I might just e-mail GW about TSOALR in WD myself. Has kind of a ring to it.
February 26th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Steve,
Sorry to hear about your job. I have been there and it does indeed stink. Thank you for this comic. I have enjoyed it since day one and will continue to do so until you stop writing it. BOiDs was also great, hope at some point you can pick that one back up. Long live the EPS!
“Poke em inna eye!!!!”
February 26th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
It’s a real shame that GW aren’t more forgiving, but considering the sort of fights they’ve suffered in the past I can understand their priggishness about IP… personally I don’t see this as a bad thing.
I’ve followed TSOALR for a long while and I think deep in your heart you know that TSOALR reached the end of its ‘run’ about a season ago. Sometimes it takes an uncomfortable jolt to trigger the creative juices and get the brain working into something to benefit you.
TSOALR will always stand as a testiment to just how brilliantly funny you are as a strip writer and how consistently clever and entertaining you’ve been. TSOALR is consistent, entertaining and at moments pure genius. Your guest slots were ok, but all too frequently only demonstrated how ‘above the cut’ your own material is.
As an ardent fan I believe you are in a stronger position than ever to create new and exciting material …
“From the creator of TSOALR!”
Good luck and have fun – I look forward to reading your future work!
February 26th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I am sorry to hear about you losing your job, and the possible end of TSOALR.
Being unemployed myself I understand what you have to do. You have to prioritize and a hobby has to be well down on the list.
I hate it when reality get in the way of the hobby. This is one of my favorite comics.
Good Luck and all the best
February 26th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
I could swear quite profusely here, but I won’t, but please feel free to insert your own expletives at will.
GW has had some bad runs in the past and they do need to watch put for the future, but denying what is a very simple request that does not affect them is ridiculous. Being a justshortof18 scot living in Ireland, I don’t know much about the law, but I believe that placing the comic as parody supercedes GW jurisdiction, as is the case in South Park? I know Tom Cruise got an episode pulled but I also believe that was under slander laws for implying
he was homosexual. If I’m wrong sorry, but if I’m right think it through!
I haven’t been Reading TSOALR for long, only a few months, but its one of my favourite webcomics, second only to StarSlip, and I mourn its passing. The cavendish comic has much merit, Cavendish in the Mark III male would be awesome!
Good luck in your ventures, you may wish to consider trying to get a daily funny in a newspaper or suchlike, I believe you have our emails from these posts and it’d be great if you could mail us word of your faring and new ventures.
Good luck , and GOOD SHOT CORPORAL CAVENDISH!
February 26th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
I can’t believe it’s coming to an end after 5 or so years of pure 40k greatness. Sorry about your job, and good luck with whatever you do next.
February 26th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
So many sites that I love have spluttered and died recently… it’s like a disease…
Glad to hear it’s not the end of the end, though. I reckon the Cavendish idea holds a lot of merit.
Last word- If, in the distant future, you decide to put TSOALR back on its feet, nobody’s going to complain. *hint*
February 26th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
it was this comic that convinced me to start 40k, and nowi have spend at least a thousand (possible more) into GW, so your right, this is basicly a free ad for GW.
February 26th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
MacDuff, even while they couldn’t do it, the Sueing allone costs a fair bunch of Bucks because Steve needs to employ Lawyers and all that crap – and if the value in dispute is set high enough by GW, he couldn’t efford even a Minute of that Lawyers Fees – they work entirely on Case by Case payment!
February 26th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
I found out about TSOALR from 40k radio and I went back to the first strip and read each one to get current, it has been such a pleasure and I will sorely miss reading the misshaps each week.
February 26th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
This is terrible! Have you thought about adding a supporter option and then offer the comic as an incentive for subscribers? I’d definitely be willing to sign up!
February 26th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
you could sell TSOALR comics under the table by saying that we (the buyers) are “donating” to you, and you send the comics as a “gift” so you officaly arnt making many off it, right?
February 26th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
Now, while you cant SELL it with the idea of making any profit from this, you can print out all the items you have done, format it into a book like object and put it up as ART COLLECTIONS available for DONATIONS. Since its a decision for someone to GIVE you money for the artwork you have made, GW cannot actually hold you in suit, because you arent doing something to cut their profit.
Parody law can also apply here, as some of the items you do draw about are things that make fun of a well known item. Just saying.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:30 am
i’ve never posted before, but when i first about Steve’s predicament i just had to say something. TSOALR got me into WH40k. i was going to say let us minions gather and bombard GW with e-mails, and demand them to grant Steve the right to publish a comliation of TSOALR. but after reading the other posts, i knew what some said was right. there’s no way that GW would agree. so i now say, screw them. i’ll certainly miss the gang. but if you do find yourself back up, perhaps cavendish would indeed be a good starting point. with kren & frep doing cameos with vague references to a sc-fi war game! in any case, your a talented man Steve. were sure you’ll figure something out.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:37 am
What really gets me is that you’ve given GW five freaking years of FREE marketing, and they won’t even let you produce a book under license? Geez. It was your comics that really got me into 40k. I went from having a so-so interest to really wanting to play…
I can’t believe they wouldn’t give you a license… Or at least OFFER one to you…
February 27th, 2009 at 1:47 am
Well, it was fun while it lasted. I can certainly understand the desire to do something that you own entirely and can use as a money-earner, though. Fan-work just isn’t profitable, usually. Thanks for the laughs, man.
February 27th, 2009 at 5:01 am
Hope everything gets better for you & you get a job soon. Sad to say I think GW is going to be even more strict over it IP during the recession.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Hi Steve,
I am really sorry you are losing your job. I hope everything will be fine for both you and family..
I got used to check TSOALR everyday -I know you put up new comics but it is a bad habit of clicking- it will be a great loss for me… I am waiting for your new project which will replace TSOALR… I hope it will be more beneficial for you…
Best luck for everyone, we will need this…
February 27th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Hi Steve,
As with everyone else who reads this webcomic I will be greatly saddened by its passing. TSOLR has been the first thing I check when I come online everyday for the last three years, and has made my day on many many occasions, so thank you very much for such an amazing webcomic.
I assume that you have looked at the possiblity of contacting Black Library and publishing through them as an offical GW product. That could possibly be a solution.
Also very sorry about you losing your job, these are not fun times. I wish you good luck in the future, and hope that when things start to go well again TSOLR will be revived?
Thanks again.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:23 am
This is sad, if not unexpected news. It is a rather sobering thought isn’t it? You give them free advertising by cheerleading their products (albeit humourously) and they give you…nothing.
(Could they not just “bring you on board” as it were?)
Lesson learnt I guess. I hope whatever you turn to instead proves more viable for you.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Sorry to hear about your loss of job and wish you all the best in finding a new one and having a great future, while I am of course sorry to hear that the comic is ending, I totaly understand and again wish you all the best for the future.
Regards.
SG.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
It is truly the end of an age.
February 27th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
we’re all gonna die! TSOALR is gonna end! T.T
on a seriuos note, this is really bad news. TSOALR brought a ray of sunshine to an otherwise boring week. it’s really sad to see it go. please at least keep the site up so we can browse the archives.
anyway, good luck.
February 27th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Why not alter the names and a few images, so as to avoid infringment? Krusty the Clown’s now Genreic TV Clown, for instance. Double headed eagles weren’t created by GW.
February 27th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
This is a tragedy and though there are many loopholes, Games-Workshop has you in a bad spot. The Cavendish idea would be great, as well as the possibility of a parody safeguard for marketing. Also if you were to use some donation system such as a member earns points for donating which lets them download or have access to extra material on the site. Hell you don’t even need that, enough people here would gladly donate to you. Good luck.
February 27th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
I’ll be really sad to see this go. It was a great comic, one of the best webcomics for it’s family friendly-ness and general laughs. Good luck with the rest of your life!
February 27th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
As someone who a) has also gone through the irritation of losing one’s job and b) has played 40K since the RT days, you have my sympathy and my belated congratulations on an excellent GW-related product.
Frankly, after watching that company go through so many iterations, I never thought I’d find anything *fun* about 40K again, but TSOALR proved me wrong, and while I’ll miss the EPS and the characters (especially Jack, for some reason), I look forward to your new gaming-related comic with great anticipation!
February 27th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Steve,
Good luck in your job search! I hope you find something soon! I know how rough it is not having a job. We’ll all miss Turn Signals while it’s down.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
I believe under US law, this constitutes fair use, or so my college copyright classes from back at AIP lead me to believe. Under US law, you can ask the judge to make the other guy pay the legal fees if they lose, as well.
February 28th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Sorry to hear that.
I have an idea; become a Games Workshop employee! Then you could make TSOALR official GW. It’s the only way, really, to make this work. At the very least, it would guarantee TSOALR’s survival.
March 1st, 2009 at 11:28 pm
I would suggest that you consider the following:
Produce TSOALR once a week. Put a majority of your efforts into your new comic, but don’t let this one die.
You have a loyal fan base, but just walking away from this because there is no $ in it for you would be bad way to treat all your loyal readers.
I not sure what knid of back lash it would cause but I am would bet that you would see some knid of loss in readers and fan base. Tie the two brands together.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:43 am
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THAT SUCKS SO BAD!
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:59 am
Hi Steve, very sorry to hear about your job. Hope the prospects get better. I’ll miss Kren and Frep and Jack and Cavendish (yes, it wouldn’t be TSOALR without him) ….. this brought the fun back to 40K. Good luck with the new comic.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:01 pm
It would be a shame to see TSOALR fall. Perhaps those who are so inclined could send a quick – and, needless to say, impeccably polite – note to Games Workshop to show them what a following you have? The “TSOALR got me into 40K” argument probably wouldn’t do any harm either.
Certainly I can’t see that it would do GW any harm at all to release a TSOALR book under the Black Library imprint – indeed, given that they’ve been moving away from the darkly comic undertones they used to have, it would probably do a lot to bring some of the older gamers back to the fold. I know it would for me.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Sorry to hear it’s ending. Thanks a lot for my introduction to the marvellous world of webcomics. Can’t wait to see what you do with your own stuff. Good luck you deserve it.
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:21 pm
hee hee print it china… let’s see GW IP tackle the chinese government
March 4th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
Long live the Emperors Pointy Sticks. Steve I am sorry to hear that you lost your job and I’d like to thank you for getting me into WH40K. I’m tempted to write to GW for their standard bearer in WD.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Long live the Emperors Pointy Sticks. Steve I am sorry to hear that you lost your job. I’d like to thank you for getting me into the hobby. FREEM!
March 5th, 2009 at 5:45 am
Has no-one put GW up against their preposterous IP claims?
Anyhow, thanks for the laughs you’ve brought and good luck forthwith.
March 5th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
It is truly said to see TSOALR go, since I only started reading your comic after hearing about it on 40k Radio. Good luck with the new comic. But I hope that there might be a chance that this one might be saved. Hopefully there might be something that the table top gaming community can do to help.
March 5th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Oh man.
That´s make me crying =( !!!
Sorry for you.
Im from Germany and i love this Comic *^-^*
Most the first i do if i turn on my PC is too read Tsoalr
Will miss this !! !! !!
Hope you find something new work !!!
In tears ^.-
Gaustos !!!!!
March 5th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Man, that sucks about getting canned. I understand the need to support your family. I will miss Jack and the guys. If you can, let me know when you start something else. I will certainly check it out.
March 6th, 2009 at 8:20 am
Hi Steve. Hope things pick up for you on the job front. Maybe once things are more secure TSOALR can return. TSOALR is the highlight of my web-week, it wouldn’t be the same without. All the best, Da Skwire (UK)
March 6th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
GW are notorious for saying NO to everything.
This is their loss. If they instead licensed you and took a percentage, they would have expanded their product line with some quality humor. They’re missing out on an opportunity to make more money.
You might want to remind them that you have an existing fan base and shoot them some numbers on website views. Offering them the opportunity to make money by doing little to nothing by licensing you might cast your request in a different light.
March 7th, 2009 at 1:35 am
Without this comic, I never, ever would have played 40K. Now I have 3,000 points of WAAAAAAAAAGH!
I hope you find something soon, and one day can return to this. Thank you.
March 9th, 2009 at 3:04 am
don’t suppose it’d help if we all petitioned them?
I’m sorry for you man, I’d help but…..
well, not much a 16 year old aussie can really do…… other than kill them all.
March 10th, 2009 at 1:39 am
You will be missed. This is one of the best webcomics of all time.
Good luck with your endeavors, and when you return, we will be ready.
-LittleBlueMan
March 10th, 2009 at 9:46 am
this is a damned trajedy
March 10th, 2009 at 11:44 am
“WAAAAAAAAAAAAA” Man this SUCKS, I check this site every day. It even got me back into the game after abandoning it for about 10 years. But I understand, you gotta live and you gotta support your family, Good Luck and Thanks for all the laughs. God Bless
March 10th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
This is why you should have gone to WARMACHINE. Privateer Press supports their fans. And the game is better. But you will be missed.
I hope the site stays up, as it is an excellent hub for all things nerdy, and I have yet to bookmark memorize some of those links, so they are quite essential for my continuing nerd-dome.
March 10th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
I recommend replying to them enquiring as to whether you could sell it on to either GW, the Black Library or White Dwarf for either a cash payment or if sold as a collection for a part of the royalties. That way it’s just like any other submission to GW but they can choose to pay you in return for further work. After all, don’t the authors they currently have operate under a similar system?
March 11th, 2009 at 12:23 am
I’m really sorry to hear you lost your job, and that you’ll be ending TSOALR. I totally understand why though, losing your job’s never fun. I’m totally surprised by GW’s non-offer to let you publish the comic under Black Library, I feel that it would have sold rather well, and brought some long awaited humour into a universe where the only jokes seem to come from the Orks (not that there’s anything wrong with that). I hope that when you get back on your feet, you’ll come back to your roots here. Thanks for all the laughs.
March 11th, 2009 at 7:48 am
I would love it if GW allowed for you to keep doing tsoalr but maybe as a strip in the magazine. That way you could keep doing it and working on other projects. I love this strip and it sucsk that you can’t do a print version.
March 11th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Thats a pity. But is it possible for you to make for example a zip-file with all TSOALR after ending the comic so we can look up it every time we want?
March 11th, 2009 at 8:59 am
I’ll be sorry to see TSOALR go. Maybe Kren and Frep can do the occasional cameo in your new comic?
March 11th, 2009 at 9:16 am
I’m sorry to hear about your job, where I work I hear alot about people getting laid off. I hope you can find something soon.
I understand that gw does have copyrights on alot of things in here and I aggree that black library could print a book and give Steve a portion.
I say we take up arms against them and start sending them emails expressing our desire to see tsloar in print. Even if it is by them. Steve and Larry need to be recognized for their hard work.
March 11th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
I got to thinking about GW not allowing you to make money off of GW imagry. Comics and TV shows routinely use imagry from other comics and shows (south park just used mickey mouse) to make money. How do they get away with it? I could understand if you were using an exact image of GW property but you are using an artist’s rendering (in this case you are the artist). Which is exactly wat south park just did. Just a thought.
March 12th, 2009 at 2:31 am
This is real, real bad news!
I do understand and suppot the reason that family goes first. And specially since u lost ur job, it will be a rough time! So do take good care of them!
Do know that all over the world, people enjoyed reading ur web-comic, and I’m hoping TSOALR will return someday. (it is and will be, 1 of the best)
All the luck for the future!
March 13th, 2009 at 10:58 am
I’m so sorry to hear that this will be the end of TSOLR. I have enjoyed every single strip since the beginning. I will miss the Emperors Pointy Sticks.
Not surprised that GW got a pointy stick up their butts about you making money off your comic though. They’ve always been hard headed about that kind of thing. Even though all TSOLR ever did was bring people into the store, and make folks laugh about their overly addictive hobby. It made it ok to laugh about paying too much for shaped plastic and metal.
Thanks for the amusement. Been a great time.
March 14th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Hey. I’ve been a fan of TSOALR for a long time and I’m saddened by the news. IPR has really been a hot issue with the onset of the digital age. However, maybe if you “sold” or “commission” the TSOALR book to a GW affiliated publisher (Black Library) they might consider it. Granted they’ll take a cut from your proceeds but at least the TSOALR book will see the light of day (and you get some dough for your efforts too).
Hope that helps.
March 16th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
“Certainly I can’t see that it would do GW any harm at all to release a TSOALR book under the Black Library imprint – indeed, given that they’ve been moving away from the darkly comic undertones they used to have, it would probably do a lot to bring some of the older gamers back to the fold. I know it would for me.”
-awmperry
my first thought exactly. seems like an obvious move on GW’s part. Why NOT buy something that already has a dedicated fanbase that overlaps 90% with YOUR dedicated fanbase?
March 17th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
would there be a way to perhaps purchase a CD of all of the TSOLR comics, and perhaps we could simply pay the cost of the CD + shipping and handling? My son and I love the Emperor’s Pointy Sticks!! and I’d hate to see them go forever…
March 17th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
As someone in business school, I am always amazed at GW’s apparent lack of business sense. If I didn’t know better I would think they were purposely trying to screw themselves. Anyway, thanks Steve for all the hilarity you have brought to us all.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Usually i don’t write comments, but this is important. I followed tsoarl since the beginning… is useless to count the times that tears fell from my eyes with so many laughs at reading your work. Is an elemental part of my joy of the hobby, like assembling, painting and dying on the gaming table… but even the greatest space marines heroes die… I am sorry that the corporate world is like Chaos, so unforgiving and so cold. I, for one, salute you in the name of my Crimson Fists army and in the name of the Emperor. Have faith brother, world crisis and all, we will endure. We ha to. Best of luck to you and all your new projects. Take heed of what I tell my wife and kids: “There always be time and money for space marines… and eldar… and fantasy orcs and goblins”
March 21st, 2009 at 3:16 am
I hate to hear that it’s ending, but I can perfectly understand why.
I’ve followed this comic since about.. Episode 20? Thereabouts. Anyway.
I’ll send an email to GW tomorrow about my outrage towards your situation here, personally I’ve been watching this company go down the drain for the last 10 years I’ve been gaming. I would like to say, thank you a thousand times over for the last five years. You’ve given me silly things to think about, and always something entertaining to read. That kind of thing is rare these days. So, in so doing, I shall try to help you in kind.
I know an acquaintance who is selling her soul to the devil (aka learning to be a lawyer) and I’ll ask her if she could look into this situation and see if she has any insights that could possibly help.
But yet, my thanks shall be threefold, I’ll set to work tomorrow on drawing you something as a true thank you from the heart. Regretfully my tablet somehow broke so you’ll have to endure some non-digital art, but I hope you won’t mind.
So, as I’ve said probably a dozen times already.. Thank you for the laughs and the memories. I hope that we can all make them change their minds about this one.
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:48 am
Well I’m very sorry to hear about your employment problems, I feel obligated to break the chain of people who seem to think there’s anything wrong with what GW are doing.
In the world of corporate affairs protecting your ideas is as important as selling them. If you lose control of your products then you lose control of your future and anyone here who thinks that GW selectively releasing copyright authority over their works and not beginning the slide down the slippery slope is simply kidding themselves, sorry.
There are many companies (Japanese ones specifically) who would have shut this website down the moment it began to get more than a few thousand hits a week. GW could easily have put an end to TSOALR a long time ago, but didn’t. The fact they did not in itself was generous considering the modern day court-happy attitude of most large companies.
There comes a time though, when you’ve just got to hold your hands up. TSOALR is fundamentally based on someone else’s work. Someone else’s work that has spawned a global business which makes money on the premise that it, and it alone, owns the exclusive rights to everything under its label.
I’m actually shocked that some of the comments here are suggesting getting a lawyer involved. That is a very dangerous route – if you try to snatch a hand into GW’s pot, they might just decide you’re no longer worth the trouble and may decide what they’ve been overlooking has crossed into copyright infringement. The results don’t bare thinking about.
You’ve been allowed to sell some merchandise which could arguably be considered by a court-happy corporation to be copyright infringement. I’d say that perhaps, you should consider what you’ve achieved a victory and to others I say – step out of the situation and listen to what you’re all basically saying -
“I think a webcomic based on Games Workshop’s work should be allowed to generate profit for a party outside the company.”
It’s never going to happen.
Secondly, the much-mentioned point about possibly publishing through Black Library is moot – GW has always preferred its authors to create original ideas for Black Library’s publication; TSOALR has existed outside Black Library with its own culture and following and even if GW published it, the majority of people would consider it TSOALR through Black Library and not Black Library’s TSOALR.
No company as successful as GW is going to consider that.
I’m sorry to have to rain your parade, but some of the comments on here are wide off the mark.
March 25th, 2009 at 11:17 am
If you choose to go the route of using an attorney and then publishing, be aware you might win but the victory would not necessarily result in profit. Paying an attorney to win a suit before you can sell anything is very risky.
TerrorFex’s points above are correct, but he did not carry them sufficiently. You have a basis for success in that GW knew of and willfully allowed your comic to exists. In both UK and US law that severely undercuts the argument of trademark protection, which is the slippery slope TF mentions. Over five years of publication with sales of ’stuff’ tied to the publication, and not a single ‘cease and desist’ letter even though the company’s leadership knew of your site, all give a solid foundation for PROBABLE success if you wanted to push it. You have created and profited from a derivative work of which the originator had certain knowledge, and in both the US and UK protection of trademark (not copyright – get your labels right) requires action once knowledge of the violation is certain. Silence is assent.
Court approval would not be absolutely certain. It would take time. It would take money. Given your current circumstances, then, I’d refrain. Later, once you’ve income again, you might reconsider it, but do so only after consultation with a trademark attorney who is eligible to fight your battle in both the US and the UK. (That much is likely to be inexpensive, and so worth your time.)
April 2nd, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Steve, best of luck with the job hunt – I am facing layoff as well and with a wife and kids to support, it’s scary.
Ignore the people who tell you to get into a fight with GW, it’s not worth it. But the idea of spinning Cavendish off into his own comic is a good one. You could parody wargaming in general rather than just GW. I remember Phil Foglio’s What’s New where he made fun of RPG tropes and called the game in question FRPG – we all knew it was D&D but since he never mentioned it T$R couldn’t do much to him. He still uses this approach.
Some of the things GW claims copyright over won’t stand scrutiny (e.g. Eldar is a word that means elf – no one owns it, it is an English word. Codex is a sacred book, again its a normal word – you could no more copyright it than I could copyright Cat.) GW’s specific presentation of Eldar IS copyrightable of course but if I decide I want to make Space Elves or just call them Nisse (another word meaning elf) then GW is SOL as long as I don’t copy their presentation.
You can (and SHOULD) do likewise, deal in generic memes, Kren and Frep are Star Warriors/Space Jarheads… The IG is the Space Army… Orks are Space Goblins… make it generic, remove GW specific imagery and you are good to go. Go further afield – hit every part of the hobby, role-play, historicals, etc. Think Larry Leadhead and you are untouchable. Move the focus to Cavendish and you have a fully marketable IP you fully own.
Best of luck!
April 6th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
It’s things like this that make me not like GW. Compare their handling of this situation with WotSC’s handling of DnD spinoffs, and you’ll see what I’m getting at. There’s no precedent that explains why they are so venomous against formats that they are NOT participating in (see: comics) using spin-offs of their own properties! I could see them getting upset if they printed comics themselves and it competed against them, but it makes no damned sense. Buying your comic isn’t going to make me stop buying GW models, but not letting you print may. Hell, I haven’t bought a model in over a year because of how angry I am with their shenanigans.
Long live Privateer Press. … Yeah, I said it. =P
April 13th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Why don’t you ask GW if they would bend over for a comic strip in White Dwarf, I guess someone else must have suggested this but I only found your site a while ago and spent ages reading the strips (and LMAO) because they are so damn good. And lets be honest WD really needs the lift that your strip would give it!
Good luck in finding new work!
April 13th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
[...] out our fortunes through publishing Gone to Ground. Meanwhile, we wholeheartedly sympathize with Stephen Campbell’s plight; Turn Signals was definitely an inspiration for both of us, and we wish nothing but the best for [...]
April 16th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Me and my friends have constantly been annoying GW about it. Eventually we’ll show them who’s boss.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
This is bad sooooo bad….
This and tau online are what I check constantly i will sorely miss it. When i first found this site a month ago i went to the start and had the biggest marathon read ever (on an ipod with a tiny screen!).
I agree try and get GW to give you a space in WD, just don’t let Tsoalr die.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:58 am
hey my first post but i have been reading tsonalr since kren and frep got there dip in the break fluid and i wont you to know that i sent a email to gw asking to consider inculding you on wd thax for the 40k love in three littel boxes over and if that dont work then …. i say to all us loyal fans its time for the torches and pich forks BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD BITCHES